30 Minutes With Mike Barrick

Editor’s Note: As a member of the Caldwell County Board of Education, Michael Barrick has spoken out for Christian values. Now, he takes his message to the people of North Carolina as a candidate for Superintendent of Public Instruction. Though running against an incumbent, and with the teacher’s unions openly supporting the Democratic Party at the national level, Barrick knows he is running an uphill battle. But he says his campaign – and the reform of North Carolina’s schools with such innovations as vouchers, tax credits, and charter schools – are battles worth fighting.

Warren Smith: Do you have a chance of winning?

Michael Barrick: Yes. I think I can win. In fact, I know I can win. That’s not the same thing as saying I know I will win. But I can win. Why? In 1996, the incumbent received only 52% of the vote in a year that was heavily Democratic and in a state in which Clinton did very well, and against a challenger who ran not the most organized of campaigns.

Translate that into 2000, a year that should be a Republican year in North Carolina. George Bush is very strong, so there will be a coattail effect. Combine that with the fact that in 1998 Republicans won statewide court races, we can see that the numbers are moving in our direction. NCFree, out of Raleigh, says the same thing. That combined with the fact that we’ve got the message that resonates with the people of North Carolina tells me that we can win.

As we’ve traveled the state throughout the year, my message is the same message that polling data says the vast majority of North Carolinians believe in. Now, it’s not a message I developed to fit the polls. It’s simply a fact that what we’re talking about – an entrepreneurial spirit, a business-like approach, choice, competition, accommodating innovation and change, stronger curriculum – all those things are resonating with the people of North Carolina.

WS: Though it’s admirable and honorable to run a campaign based on message, the hard reality is that in a race that is going to be below the radar screen for a lot of voters in the state, the winner will be the guy who gets his name out, not his message. That means media and money.

MB: That’s a good point. And the truth is that the money isn’t coming in like we expected. But that was probably based on unrealistic expectations on my part, not that we’re not doing things right. Every other council of state candidate is having a problem raising money. All the money is going to Vinroot and Bush. So it’s going to be a problem raising money. We may never raise the money that we need. And even if we do, it will be crowded. There will be so many commercials out there that I don’t know if it will make a difference.

So we have a strategy, and – to be honest with you – I’m not sure I want my entire strategy printed. But I will tell you that it involves electronic media, and I am working hard criss-crossing the state. As we look at the numbers, a large portion of my base and his base is already there. No matter what we do, those people are going to vote for us. So we’re working the margins. A small number of voters. Well under a million. Probably under half-a-million. There are ways to reach them apart from TV, radio, and direct mail. Obviously, we’d like to do those things. But if we don’t get the money, we’ve got other ways to reach those people.

WS: I know you’ve been all over the state, and one of the things you accomplished was to short-circuit any possible competition in the Republican primaries. You ran unopposed in the Republican primaries. You received support from local Republican leaders early on. Has that support continued? If Vinroot and Bush are raising so much money, is the Republican Party raising money? Are they able to help you?

MB: Frankly, I’ve been disappointed with the support of the Republican Party. I would rate it at close to nonexistent. I would say that they do things in general that help candidacies like my own, but there still doesn’t seem to be the sense of urgency about winning council of state seats that in my opinion we should have. It’s been harder than it needs to be.

But we have local people who are working very hard. One of the things we’re doing is getting to the teachers. I [spoke] to all the superintendents in the state. I’ve got to get my message before them. Now, whether or not they’ll buy into that message is another question, but at least I need to get my message before them. And I do believe in that "rule of seven." The ripple effect that can happen. You talk to seven; they’ll talk to seven. And so on. I’d like to have the money, but I don’t have it. And I’m too far into the campaign to just quit.

WS: The National Educators Assocation met and even some of the leadership of the group said they were astonished at how partisan the meeting was. That conservatives were the greatest threat to education in America. Vouchers and school choice and charter schools – they were very open about maligning those things. Those are the sort of things you respond for. My point is that you’re battling a pretty entrenched special interest.

MB: I don’t accept the notion that the NEA speaks for teachers. But let’s not be under any illusions. They’re a very powerful group. They have money, and they are in lock-step with the Democratic Party, so there’s a lot to overcome there.

You asked me earlier why I was running, and I’m going to answer that here, because it all fits together. I’m running because there’s a call upon my life to run for this post. God calls me to be obedient; he doesn’t call me to win.

Now, for those who will read this and think, "How presumptuous for him to say that," let me turn it on the flip-side. How would someone feel if I was doing this and I didn’t feel God’s call upon my life. Any person who claims to be a Christian, who is an evangelical, who believes that God directs every moment of their life, shouldn’t be doing something they don’t feel called to do.

So this is a David and Goliath campaign. I’m not under any illusions.

WS: You are an active evangelical Christian. You’ve already shared how you think the Republican Party has supported its candidates. What’s your opinion of the level of involvement of the Christian community in the public square?

MB: I sense that this year, because of eight years of Clinton, that there’s a higher level of enthusiasm among conservative Christians to be involved in the political process. They’re still not where I would want them to be, but I’m not going to question God’s call on other people’s lives. If they don’t feel the call to be involved, I’m not going to question that.

The area that’s disappointing, but not surprising, is that the money doesn’t come. Of course, evangelical Christians are usually supporting various ministries, so I’m not going to be critical of that. And I will say that the greatest enthusiasm we sense definitely comes from Christian conservatives.

WS: Part of that may be because you’ve been outspoken about your Christian faith, and you’ve been outspoken in Caldwell County – where you sit on the school board – for some causes that are important to Christians. You issued a statement saying that the Supreme Court ban on prayer at football games was dead wrong. You’ve stayed the course for Christian causes….

MB: Well, it’s not just a matter of staying the course for Christian causes, it also points out why I’m qualified for this post. The biggest thing we’ve sacrificed in the political process, and in governing, is truth. That’s one of the reasons I’m running. We have a drop-out rate that we report as 4.6%, when actually only 60% of the children who enter high school graduate. We’re not being honest about that. We have to be honest about that with the people of North Carolina. I still believe that people are capable of making the right decisions, but they have to have the information.

That’s what I would point to about my term on the school board. We now publish a budget booklet that I proposed that tells people where the money comes from and where it’s going. I’ve been responsive to constituents. Their concerns regarding calendar issues. On a book that was inappropriate for middle school students. Now, will one book removal change the school system? No. But it is symbolic of my willingness to stand for what’s important. Our school board was the first to oppose the lottery, one of the few to oppose the lottery.

WS: Many Christians will applaud the symbolism of these actions, but are these actions merely symbolic? Window-dressing? A lot of Christians have given up on the public school system. Yes, you can keep one book out of one library at one school, and God bless you for that, but does that really make a difference?

MB: I’ve done some real serious soul-searching about the public schools. I mentioned earlier that I feel God’s call on my life to run for this post. Now, it could be because he wants me to be the superintendent of public instruction. It could be because he wants to teach me something about myself. It could be because he wants me to reflect at a far deeper level about the state of the public schools. It might be all three.

But I will tell you that as a result of this campaign I have had deep reflection about the state of the public schools. I am seriously concerned about them. And the truth is that why that supreme court decision upset me so much is not because it is anything new. It’s not the first time the court has been hostile toward Christian beliefs. It’s just another example of the fact that we refuse to acknowledge God in the public schools. We have the discipline problems in our schools because we don’t teach that there is absolute truth. We don’t teach children that there is an absolutely authority, and that authority is God. And if we don’t teach that, it should come as no surprise that they don’t respect the authority of school teachers. So, yes, I am very concerned about the state of public schools.

Now, after the November election, I’ll have an opportunity to reflect on them even further. If elected, I promise I will be a champion for Christian principles that I believe our school system needs in order for our children to learn what is meaningful. If I lose, then I’ll reflect upon what impact I can have in improving public education. I don’t know if that means participating in something like Exodus 2000, or if that means continuing to look for ways within the system.

WS: So, at least today, you are not willing to give up on the public schools. You think they are reformable.

MB: Yes, but it will require a miracle to transform our public schools. But I still believe in the principle of public education. Our public education as currently constructed does more harm than good, to our children and to our culture. But the principle of public education – where everyone is knowledgeable, everyone has skills. Especially in a republican form of government and in a free economy. In a competitive economy we absolutely have to have people who are knowledgeable and capable. I think the public schools, in principle, are the best way of getting there.

Sure, there are liberals who will oppose merit pay, who will oppose school choice, who will oppose competition, who will oppose charter schools. But I believe those people are now out of step.

WS: Do you believe vouchers will have a corrosive effect on private Christian schools?

MB: Let’s look at the purpose of a voucher or tax credit first. It’s for the child, not the school. It’s designed to improve the child’s educational opportunity. That’s why I support vouchers in the form of opportunity scholarships.

Ideally, I would prefer tax credits. However, there are poor children whose families don’t make enough money to benefit from tax credits. They’re not paying enough taxes for a tax credit to matter. So vouchers would benefit them. It’s not fair to say that this is available to everyone except for the poorest. That’s what Clinton and Gore have said by sending their children to private schools.

So I do think opportunity scholarships should exist for the poorest of children. And by the way, my opportunity scholarship proposal has a provision that would allow Christian schools to accept those vouchers and not have to compromise their teaching.

WS: How can you fund these scholarships?

MB: I believe in less government and lower taxes. First of all, we have a $6-billion education budget in this state. Certainly we can root out some waste. Only half of the $6-billion makes it to the classroom. So the first thing I need to do is get in there and find the waste.

I’m outside and can’t do that now. I have all kinds of information coming to me about alleged waste, but I have to get in there and witness it personally.

Secondly, let’s prioritize. We’re spending money on things that are not a good use of money. We can start at the bottom and work our way up and eliminate a lot of useless programs.

My concern is for individual children, not for protecting schools that are failing. If that means the money goes to a child rather than a failing school, so what. I’m more concerned about that child than I am about that school. Competition will force schools to do a better job.

WS: You said you had information about alleged waste? Can you be more specific?

MB: I’ll list a couple of examples. But because I am a journalist by trade, I want to be careful not to make wild allegations. But there are employees of the Department of Public Instruction who send me information that says we need to look at what we pay computer consultants, for example. Now, telling me that and having the capability of doing that when I’m outside are two different things.

Another area is conferences. I know that as a school board member that the Department of Public Instruction hosts dozens of workshops every year. They do it at some of the most expensive venues possible. Sometimes outside of North Carolina. Myrtle Beach, for example.

WS: So they violated the NAACP boycott to hold a conference in Myrtle Beach, SC?

MB: Actually, the DPI partnered with the trial lawyers for a school law conference. I didn’t go to it. I’m very selective in how I spend the taxpayers’ money.
Those are just a couple of examples of alleged mismanagement of funds. I do want to emphasize that it is alleged. We visited a brand new school in Beaufort, a brand new school. $21-million. Clearly double what it should have cost. Now that’s a local problem, but it’s still an example of wasted money.





			Michael Barrick
	It’s Time To Tell The Truth Editor’s Note: As a member of the Caldwell County Board of Education, Michael Barrick has spoken out for Christian values. Now, he takes his message to the people of North Carolina as a candidate for Superintendent of Public Instruction. Though running against an incumbent, and with the teacher’s unions openly supporting the Democratic Party at the national level, Barrick knows he is running an uphill battle. But he says his campaign – and the reform of North Carolina’s schools with such innovations as vouchers, tax credits, and charter schools – are battles worth fighting. Warren Smith: Do you have a chance of winning? Michael Barrick: Yes. I think I can win. In fact, I know I can win. That’s not the same thing as saying I know I will win. But I can win. Why? In 1996, the incumbent received only 52% of the vote in a year that was heavily Democratic and in a state in which Clinton did very well, and against a challenger who ran not the most organized of campaigns. Translate that into 2000, a year that should be a Republican year in North Carolina. George Bush is very strong, so there will be a coattail effect. Combine that with the fact that in 1998 Republicans won statewide court races, we can see that the numbers are moving in our direction. NCFree, out of Raleigh, says the same thing. That combined with the fact that we’ve got the message that resonates with the people of North Carolina tells me that we can win. As we’ve traveled the state throughout the year, my message is the same message that polling data says the vast majority of North Carolinians believe in. Now, it’s not a message I developed to fit the polls. It’s simply a fact that what we’re talking about – an entrepreneurial spirit, a business-like approach, choice, competition, accommodating innovation and change, stronger curriculum – all those things are resonating with the people of North Carolina. WS: Though it’s admirable and honorable to run a campaign based on message, the hard reality is that in a race that is going to be below the radar screen for a lot of voters in the state, the winner will be the guy who gets his name out, not his message. That means media and money. MB: That’s a good point. And the truth is that the money isn’t coming in like we expected. But that was probably based on unrealistic expectations on my part, not that we’re not doing things right. Every other council of state candidate is having a problem raising money. All the money is going to Vinroot and Bush. So it’s going to be a problem raising money. We may never raise the money that we need. And even if we do, it will be crowded. There will be so many commercials out there that I don’t know if it will make a difference. So we have a strategy, and – to be honest with you – I’m not sure I want my entire strategy printed. But I will tell you that it involves electronic media, and I am working hard criss-crossing the state. As we look at the numbers, a large portion of my base and his base is already there. No matter what we do, those people are going to vote for us. So we’re working the margins. A small number of voters. Well under a million. Probably under half-a-million. There are ways to reach them apart from TV, radio, and direct mail. Obviously, we’d like to do those things. But if we don’t get the money, we’ve got other ways to reach those people. WS: I know you’ve been all over the state, and one of the things you accomplished was to short-circuit any possible competition in the Republican primaries. You ran unopposed in the Republican primaries. You received support from local Republican leaders early on. Has that support continued? If Vinroot and Bush are raising so much money, is the Republican Party raising money? Are they able to help you? MB: Frankly, I’ve been disappointed with the support of the Republican Party. I would rate it at close to nonexistent. I would say that they do things in general that help candidacies like my own, but there still doesn’t seem to be the sense of urgency about winning council of state seats that in my opinion we should have. It’s been harder than it needs to be. But we have local people who are working very hard. One of the things we’re doing is getting to the teachers. I [spoke] to all the superintendents in the state. I’ve got to get my message before them. Now, whether or not they’ll buy into that message is another question, but at least I need to get my message before them. And I do believe in that "rule of seven." The ripple effect that can happen. You talk to seven; they’ll talk to seven. And so on. I’d like to have the money, but I don’t have it. And I’m too far into the campaign to just quit. WS: The National Educators Assocation met and even some of the leadership of the group said they were astonished at how partisan the meeting was. That conservatives were the greatest threat to education in America. Vouchers and school choice and charter schools – they were very open about maligning those things. Those are the sort of things you respond for. My point is that you’re battling a pretty entrenched special interest. MB: I don’t accept the notion that the NEA speaks for teachers. But let’s not be under any illusions. They’re a very powerful group. They have money, and they are in lock-step with the Democratic Party, so there’s a lot to overcome there. You asked me earlier why I was running, and I’m going to answer that here, because it all fits together. I’m running because there’s a call upon my life to run for this post. God calls me to be obedient; he doesn’t call me to win. Now, for those who will read this and think, "How presumptuous for him to say that," let me turn it on the flip-side. How would someone feel if I was doing this and I didn’t feel God’s call upon my life. Any person who claims to be a Christian, who is an evangelical, who believes that God directs every moment of their life, shouldn’t be doing something they don’t feel called to do. So this is a David and Goliath campaign. I’m not under any illusions. WS: You are an active evangelical Christian. You’ve already shared how you think the Republican Party has supported its candidates. What’s your opinion of the level of involvement of the Christian community in the public square? MB: I sense that this year, because of eight years of Clinton, that there’s a higher level of enthusiasm among conservative Christians to be involved in the political process. They’re still not where I would want them to be, but I’m not going to question God’s call on other people’s lives. If they don’t feel the call to be involved, I’m not going to question that. The area that’s disappointing, but not surprising, is that the money doesn’t come. Of course, evangelical Christians are usually supporting various ministries, so I’m not going to be critical of that. And I will say that the greatest enthusiasm we sense definitely comes from Christian conservatives. WS: Part of that may be because you’ve been outspoken about your Christian faith, and you’ve been outspoken in Caldwell County – where you sit on the school board – for some causes that are important to Christians. You issued a statement saying that the Supreme Court ban on prayer at football games was dead wrong. You’ve stayed the course for Christian causes…. MB: Well, it’s not just a matter of staying the course for Christian causes, it also points out why I’m qualified for this post. The biggest thing we’ve sacrificed in the political process, and in governing, is truth. That’s one of the reasons I’m running. We have a drop-out rate that we report as 4.6%, when actually only 60% of the children who enter high school graduate. We’re not being honest about that. We have to be honest about that with the people of North Carolina. I still believe that people are capable of making the right decisions, but they have to have the information. That’s what I would point to about my term on the school board. We now publish a budget booklet that I proposed that tells people where the money comes from and where it’s going. I’ve been responsive to constituents. Their concerns regarding calendar issues. On a book that was inappropriate for middle school students. Now, will one book removal change the school system? No. But it is symbolic of my willingness to stand for what’s important. Our school board was the first to oppose the lottery, one of the few to oppose the lottery. WS: Many Christians will applaud the symbolism of these actions, but are these actions merely symbolic? Window-dressing? A lot of Christians have given up on the public school system. Yes, you can keep one book out of one library at one school, and God bless you for that, but does that really make a difference? MB: I’ve done some real serious soul-searching about the public schools. I mentioned earlier that I feel God’s call on my life to run for this post. Now, it could be because he wants me to be the superintendent of public instruction. It could be because he wants to teach me something about myself. It could be because he wants me to reflect at a far deeper level about the state of the public schools. It might be all three. But I will tell you that as a result of this campaign I have had deep reflection about the state of the public schools. I am seriously concerned about them. And the truth is that why that supreme court decision upset me so much is not because it is anything new. It’s not the first time the court has been hostile toward Christian beliefs. It’s just another example of the fact that we refuse to acknowledge God in the public schools. We have the discipline problems in our schools because we don’t teach that there is absolute truth. We don’t teach children that there is an absolutely authority, and that authority is God. And if we don’t teach that, it should come as no surprise that they don’t respect the authority of school teachers. So, yes, I am very concerned about the state of public schools. Now, after the November election, I’ll have an opportunity to reflect on them even further. If elected, I promise I will be a champion for Christian principles that I believe our school system needs in order for our children to learn what is meaningful. If I lose, then I’ll reflect upon what impact I can have in improving public education. I don’t know if that means participating in something like Exodus 2000, or if that means continuing to look for ways within the system. WS: So, at least today, you are not willing to give up on the public schools. You think they are reformable. MB: Yes, but it will require a miracle to transform our public schools. But I still believe in the principle of public education. Our public education as currently constructed does more harm than good, to our children and to our culture. But the principle of public education – where everyone is knowledgeable, everyone has skills. Especially in a republican form of government and in a free economy. In a competitive economy we absolutely have to have people who are knowledgeable and capable. I think the public schools, in principle, are the best way of getting there. Sure, there are liberals who will oppose merit pay, who will oppose school choice, who will oppose competition, who will oppose charter schools. But I believe those people are now out of step. WS: Do you believe vouchers will have a corrosive effect on private Christian schools? MB: Let’s look at the purpose of a voucher or tax credit first. It’s for the child, not the school. It’s designed to improve the child’s educational opportunity. That’s why I support vouchers in the form of opportunity scholarships. Ideally, I would prefer tax credits. However, there are poor children whose families don’t make enough money to benefit from tax credits. They’re not paying enough taxes for a tax credit to matter. So vouchers would benefit them. It’s not fair to say that this is available to everyone except for the poorest. That’s what Clinton and Gore have said by sending their children to private schools. So I do think opportunity scholarships should exist for the poorest of children. And by the way, my opportunity scholarship proposal has a provision that would allow Christian schools to accept those vouchers and not have to compromise their teaching. WS: How can you fund these scholarships? MB: I believe in less government and lower taxes. First of all, we have a $6-billion education budget in this state. Certainly we can root out some waste. Only half of the $6-billion makes it to the classroom. So the first thing I need to do is get in there and find the waste. I’m outside and can’t do that now. I have all kinds of information coming to me about alleged waste, but I have to get in there and witness it personally. Secondly, let’s prioritize. We’re spending money on things that are not a good use of money. We can start at the bottom and work our way up and eliminate a lot of useless programs. My concern is for individual children, not for protecting schools that are failing. If that means the money goes to a child rather than a failing school, so what. I’m more concerned about that child than I am about that school. Competition will force schools to do a better job. WS: You said you had information about alleged waste? Can you be more specific? MB: I’ll list a couple of examples. But because I am a journalist by trade, I want to be careful not to make wild allegations. But there are employees of the Department of Public Instruction who send me information that says we need to look at what we pay computer consultants, for example. Now, telling me that and having the capability of doing that when I’m outside are two different things. Another area is conferences. I know that as a school board member that the Department of Public Instruction hosts dozens of workshops every year. They do it at some of the most expensive venues possible. Sometimes outside of North Carolina. Myrtle Beach, for example. WS: So they violated the NAACP boycott to hold a conference in Myrtle Beach, SC? MB: Actually, the DPI partnered with the trial lawyers for a school law conference. I didn’t go to it. I’m very selective in how I spend the taxpayers’ money. Those are just a couple of examples of alleged mismanagement of funds. I do want to emphasize that it is alleged. We visited a brand new school in Beaufort, a brand new school. $21-million. Clearly double what it should have cost. Now that’s a local problem, but it’s still an example of wasted money.